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Financing & Insurance
#11
I say let the person choose. I will not push my personal belief on how i think others should live their life. Please dont be like the people who used to be a smoker but then quit and now tries to make everyone else make the same decision you made. Give people the choice, that is liberty. Removing choice from people, that is the opposite of liberty.
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#12
What's unfair about agreeing with flaXen or quoting the Bible?

I’m not judging you.  I have a mortgage.

Living without debt is very simple.  Set financial goals and save until you can pay with cash.  Live on less than you earn.  Initially it requires considerable personal sacrifice but pays big rewards later in life.  I don’t care what my credit score is and I don’t have any credit cards.  It’s a great way to live.

Thanks Dave Ramsey, you changed my life.
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#13
offroadaviator - 4/25/2010 7:24 PM

What's unfair about agreeing with flaXen or quoting the Bible?

I’m not judging you.  I have a mortgage.

Living without debt is very simple.  Set financial goals and save until you can pay with cash.  Live on less than you earn.  Initially it requires considerable personal sacrifice but pays big rewards later in life.  I don’t care what my credit score is and I don’t have any credit cards.  It’s a great way to live.

Thanks Dave Ramsey, you changed my life.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. You are preaching about being debt free and living your life without debt, yet you have debt. You never plan on buying your own business one day? If that is a dream of yours, how do you think you'll do it? Not with cash, but with someone elses money. I'm willing to bet you don't consider your house mortgage as the debt your speaking of. If so, whos to say what debt is good and what debt is bad? I can write a check for a mosquito helicopter tomorrow, but I won't do that. I'd rather put down $10-15k and finance the rest. Saving my cash for business opportunities that can't be financed is what allows me to make a living from my home office, and take off any day I want. I know what I'm doing and do not need financial advice. Dave Ramsey seems like a good guy, I have nothing against him, but he's not trying to buy a house, buy a business, or do other things. You don't care about your credit? I'm not sure what world your living in, or if you have any real plans down the road. To run my businesses, I have to have good credit to buy from my suppliers and hold a credit line with them. How did you buy a decent house and get a mortgage with no credit? I think your simply referring to not living over your head, but your making a broad generalization about debt in general. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with being in debt as long as your following the terms of your loan.

Also, what do you say to someone that is 18 and wants to get a 4 year degree? Do you talk down to them for getting student loans? Do you recommend they save up $50-100k cash, then start college? Of course not.
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#14
Debt and the use of it are very personal.  I'm in debt with my home but I am paying it off as quick as I can.

I haven't considered starting a business.  Your knowledge of business exceeds mine so I will defer to you.

Mortgages are obtained by a process called "Manual Underwriting".  No credit score needed.

My wife and I attended college without debt.  No wealthy parents, just a lot of saving, planning and working extra hours.

You're ok with debt, I'm not.  I don't think less of you, I just value the extra security of being debt free.

Regardless of the method of purchase, the Mosquito is an amazing aircraft.  Just like the RV-8, quality thoughout.
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#15
Hehe -- it seems a fire started in my wake. I hope it was clear when I stated my opinion: that you should probably have cash in hand for "toys". Business is another matter entirely, and the poor 18yr old student has the worst loan options of them all.

Depending on the person & situation, a new car / house / education falls somewhere between necessity and toy, but I stand by the my opinion: avoid debt wherever possible. My siblings and I inherited a large sum back in 2005. Since then I've watched most of them lose it all to debt. After defaulting on their auto & home loans, they've got nothing to show for it and are literally moving back home with the P's.

As if the risky nature of a loan wasn't bad enough, engaging in it for pleasure is every bit as stupid as gambling is. Unlike VansRV8, I'd judge myself as "unable" if I couldn't afford it out-of-pocket w/o interfering w/ my budget -- I'd rather save the interest anyway. Build up to a purchase rather than catch up with it and you'll live longer (and happier too) -- just like the Umpa Lumpas do!

All this and more constitutes my negative opinion of lending, so I never see debt as a "win" or positive for anyone except the banker. If I had to guess, probably 95% of people know less than 5% of the truth about debt and banking in general, and maybe that's optimistic.

Hehe -- sorry for being a little preachy, you guys already know this stuff I'm sure and the rest is opinion.
Take care.
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#16
I just think debt is very misunderstood. When you have idiots going into debt, especially for a toy, it usually doesn't go well. However, when you have someone who knows what their doing, debt can be a great situation for everyone. The borrower uses the money for whatever he wants, the lender gets interest. After the loan is paid, everyone is happy. I wouldn't go around advising people to take out loans, but I don't see any problem with it if the person is responsible. I once saw a guy take out a loan for a stereo system for his car. He didn't have the $1500 to do it. He did it and paid the loan off as required. Smart move? Doesn't seem like it, but he did it and everyone benefited.
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#17
The answer can be found in a simple question - Why do you go to work every day ? If your answer is "To pay bills" then you are in many ways a slave to your debt. I believe it's just that simple. The ultra-rich of our society don't get by unless all of us little guys are slaving away- the economy DEPENDS on people being in debt. Sadly that's just the way it works. That's why you get all those credit card offers in the mail and why you see APR and monthly payments in commercials instead of what things actually cost. How many people would show up for work tomorrow if their homes, cars, and credit cards were paid for and they had money in the bank ?

Yeah, business owners need to have capital available but to use credit to buy a toy that only depreciates is still pretty stupid.
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#18
Very wise response Fly Army
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