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China
#31
mosquito - 12/14/2011 11:19 AM

In the engineering world "reverse engineering" is always said with a smirk since every knows its just a sweetened term for copying someone else's work, which is all it is, as is the case here.

Skirting the issue? Regardless how they construct the helicopter, the issue on hand is how it is possible they have US genuine mechanical stock even with the with the US company loge on the plastic bags..? If you are the supplier , should you know..?

Wink
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#32
pajaro - 12/15/2011 8:01 AM

Skirting the issue? Regardless how they construct the helicopter, the issue on hand is how it is possible they have US genuine mechanical stock even with the with the US company loge on the plastic bags..? If you are the supplier , should you know..?

Wink

If you can't figure this out, you shouldn't be discussing the situation.

The answer is simple, by the materials from the true original. They had an original to "reverse engineer" from. Easy to copy logos and such.

Funny, you will take the word of someone who copied a design, but will not take the word of the Original Mosquito designer.

The User "mosquito" is the true engineer who designed the Mosquito "Air". He is also the person who handles every machined component on every Mosquito built (flight critical components).

I am not affiliated with the Mosquito in any way, but I know that much.

Now tell him, the Chinese Entrepreneur has original parts. I guess he will know.

If you will supply a name, I'm sure the group here will be able to link that name somehow to a Mosquito sold to someone in China. Yes.....even I know there are Mosquitos which have been sold to China.......it's on the first page of this website.

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#33

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#34
The main reason I chose to purchase a mosquito was the integrity of the designer and people surrounding the company. I don't know any of them personally but this website with open forum (never seen a post deleted) I think is a very good guide. I would not care if you could purchase an identical copied mosquito from Sweden for half the price I would still purchase from original designer. When your life is in the hands of the machine you are flying the continued support and integrity of the people you purchased from is extremely important. Smile
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#35
pajaro - 12/15/2011 11:50 PM

Rob Hall - 12/14/2011 3:08 PM

No question that the quality will be inferior! I am also involved with motorbikes, and the crap that comes from China has to be seen to be believed.

Tools: I once was clumsy enough to break off a tap in the belly of a JetRanger that I was working on.
No problems! I just drilled down the centre of the tap, and used an Easyout....
What kind of metal quality applies to a tool made so soft?

The problem now, will be to draw a distinction between the real thing and the travesty.

Rob1.


Just by looking at a tap one should know the quality and if you can’t feel the cutting motions of a cheap tap, anyone entrusting you with the repairs of an aircraft has to have rocks in the head. Don’t blame the Chimes for bad products; blame the importer buying crap in China to undercut the opposition. Only a inept wound be not able to distinguish a copy of the real thing.

Oh yeah. Pick up a tap. Analyse the metallic structure.. Yup. Anyone can do that.
Piss off buddy and take your slurs with you. Loser.
Rob1
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#36
lilbrotherllc - 12/15/2011 10:40 AM

pajaro - 12/15/2011 8:01 AM

Skirting the issue? Regardless how they construct the helicopter, the issue on hand is how it is possible they have US genuine mechanical stock even with the with the US company loge on the plastic bags..? If you are the supplier , should you know..?


If you can't figure this out, you shouldn't be discussing the situation.

The answer is simple, by the materials from the true original. They had an original to "reverse engineer" from. Easy to copy logos and such.

Funny, you will take the word of someone who copied a design, but will not take the word of the Original Mosquito designer.

The User "mosquito" is the true engineer who designed the Mosquito "Air". He is also the person who handles every machined component on every Mosquito built (flight critical components).

I am not affiliated with the Mosquito in any way, but I know that much.

Now tell him, the Chinese Entrepreneur has original parts. I guess he will know.

If you will supply a name, I'm sure the group here will be able to link that name somehow to a Mosquito sold to someone in China. Yes.....even I know there are Mosquitos which have been sold to China.......it's on the first page of this website.



The Mosquito is not for export and if they have reversed the engineering why would they copy the logos too and electro plate (gold) all the steel components, it doesn’t make any sense. Being an engineer myself, I have seen the stock and it don’t look reversed engineered at all..! The kind of aviation nuts and bolts are not available in China, nor the digital torque wrench supplied to them. There is not point into supplying you a name and even so what could you do with it. Most probably the original Mosquito was legally acquired and subsequent copied by someone else, as it always happens in China. Curiously , there is a deafening silence by the US builder as to an explanation as to where the original mechanical parts could come from.
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#37
pajaro - 12/15/2011 8:00 PM

The Mosquito is not for export and if they have reversed the engineering why would they copy the logos too and electro plate (gold) all the steel components, it doesn’t make any sense. Being an engineer myself, I have seen the stock and it don’t look reversed engineered at all..! The kind of aviation nuts and bolts are not available in China, nor the digital torque wrench supplied to them. There is not point into supplying you a name and even so what could you do with it. Most probably the original Mosquito was legally acquired and subsequent copied by someone else, as it always happens in China. Curiously , there is a deafening silence by the US builder as to an explanation as to where the original mechanical parts could come from.

The Chinese copy may not be for export, but the CA/US version is.

Because the Chinese like to ride the shirt tail of leading manufacturers. Honda, Yamaha, CanAM, Blata, should I go on. I can show hundreds of situations just like this. They believe using the original name (or some variation) gives them credit.

CanAM is a great example. The Chinese copy is CanAmi. The CanAM trike is a $18,000.00 USD three wheeled motorcycle. It is one of the best selling performance trike made in the world. The Chinese version looks just like it, but only has 250cc engine (or something like that). It is not even close to the quality of the CanAM, but looks almost identical. The CanAmi is sold to people who think they are getting a great bike for a good price. But instead they are getting an under powered vehicle, with mediocre quality. I have inspected both personally, and they are not any where close with respect to quality.

The gold plating is cadmium. Funny, you being an engineer and not knowing that. It is a corrosion resistant plating. You talk about quality in China, but then contradict yourself with the statement about cadmium plating not being available in China. All aircraft bolts are to be cadmium plated. It is the standard of all large aircraft manufacturers. If no plating........less quality. Rust equals wear and weak.

If the parts are not from China, that just means they are from somewhere else. Are you saying that nothing is imported to China?

You say the parts do not look like reversed engineered parts. How does an original blade grip look? It is easy to tell, if you know what an original blade grip looks like.

I do not think a torque wrench is supplied, but you would need to confirm that with a builder.

You would be surprised what I can do with a name. I have many Chinese contacts, and friends. They help me out on occasions for different reasons.

I don't think the designer will reiterate what I've already stated. There is more than one Mosquito in China, easy enough to get the parts and copy them. You talk about parts, like there are warehouses full. If there is, those parts are not original.

James
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#38
Ok, can we stop the pissing contest now. As long as we keep arguing with the little a**hole, he's gonna keep poking us because he's getting a great deal of satisfaction seeing us get all worked up, Ya it's frustrating, but I'm sure John and the guys will take care of it. So let's quite humoring him and move on.
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#39
Rick,

You spoke out of my hart. Let's not give this person any response anymore. These kind of guys we should not react to.
Let's keep busy with our passion.

For everyone over here, .......... I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy (safe flyings) 2012.

Robert (Netherlands)
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#40
lilbrotherllc - 12/15/2011 8:32 PM

pajaro - 12/15/2011 8:00 PM

The Mosquito is not for export and if they have reversed the engineering why would they copy the logos too and electro plate (gold) all the steel components, it doesn’t make any sense. Being an engineer myself, I have seen the stock and it don’t look reversed engineered at all..! The kind of aviation nuts and bolts are not available in China, nor the digital torque wrench supplied to them. There is not point into supplying you a name and even so what could you do with it. Most probably the original Mosquito was legally acquired and subsequent copied by someone else, as it always happens in China. Curiously , there is a deafening silence by the US builder as to an explanation as to where the original mechanical parts could come from.

The Chinese copy may not be for export, but the CA/US version is.

Because the Chinese like to ride the shirt tail of leading manufacturers. Honda, Yamaha, CanAM, Blata, should I go on. I can show hundreds of situations just like this. They believe using the original name (or some variation) gives them credit.

CanAM is a great example. The Chinese copy is CanAmi. The CanAM trike is a $18,000.00 USD three wheeled motorcycle. It is one of the best selling performance trike made in the world. The Chinese version looks just like it, but only has 250cc engine (or something like that). It is not even close to the quality of the CanAM, but looks almost identical. The CanAmi is sold to people who think they are getting a great bike for a good price. But instead they are getting an under powered vehicle, with mediocre quality. I have inspected both personally, and they are not any where close with respect to quality.

The gold plating is cadmium. Funny, you being an engineer and not knowing that. It is a corrosion resistant plating. You talk about quality in China, but then contradict yourself with the statement about cadmium plating not being available in China. All aircraft bolts are to be cadmium plated. It is the standard of all large aircraft manufacturers. If no plating........less quality. Rust equals wear and weak.

If the parts are not from China, that just means they are from somewhere else. Are you saying that nothing is imported to China?

You say the parts do not look like reversed engineered parts. How does an original blade grip look? It is easy to tell, if you know what an original blade grip looks like.

I do not think a torque wrench is supplied, but you would need to confirm that with a builder.

You would be surprised what I can do with a name. I have many Chinese contacts, and friends. They help me out on occasions for different reasons.

I don't think the designer will reiterate what I've already stated. There is more than one Mosquito in China, easy enough to get the parts and copy them. You talk about parts, like there are warehouses full. If there is, those parts are not original.

James


time with a twit like you. You can’t answer the core question. All mechanical part are original/engine, and most probably supplied by the builders. Times are bad in the US and any deal is as good as gold.
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